LILO-LITE - Answers to questions and issues raised

[Mark Hobley]

Thankyou to everyone who has left feedback in relation to this
project.

I have now answered some of your questions, in relation to the reasons
for starting this project.

For those who are interested, this is posted at:

http://markhobley.yi.org/linux/projects/lilolite/why.html

[Tauno Voipio]

Post by Mark Hobley
Thankyou to everyone who has left feedback in relation to this
project.
I have now answered some of your questions, in relation to the reasons
for starting this project.
http://markhobley.yi.org/linux/projects/lilolite/why.html

If you need a really light way of loading, just copy the kernel onto a
floppy and there you go. Hardly can be lighter.

Have a look at the kernel sources.

Why is a boot loader *not* suitable for a first project:

- you have to have good understanding of the BIOS and underlying hardware
- you have to understand the booting conventions
- the boot loader is 16 bit code, not an easy piece under Linux
- you may need to switch back and forth between 16 and 32 bit modes
- it's bloody difficult to debug when something goes awry

Please tell again how you could make LILO lighter and keep the necessary
functionality.

Been there, done that.

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio @ iki fi

[Christopher Browne]

Post by Tauno Voipio
Please tell again how you could make LILO lighter and keep the necessary
functionality.

Furthermore, what people are _actually_ looking for are HEAVIER WEIGHT
alternatives to LILO. Distributions are, increasingly, booting using
GRUB, which has a whole lot of additional functionality.

[Kasper Dupont]

Post by Christopher Browne

Post by Tauno Voipio
Please tell again how you could make LILO lighter and keep the necessary
functionality.

Furthermore, what people are _actually_ looking for are HEAVIER WEIGHT
alternatives to LILO. Distributions are, increasingly, booting using
GRUB, which has a whole lot of additional functionality.

At first I was skeptical about that, but after using it for
some time, I must say, I like it. The fact that it doesn't
break if you forget to run /sbin/lilo and that it allows
you to specify a lot more different options at boot time
without having to have them in the configuration file is
really nice.

I think part of grub itself is still loaded using a list
of sectors, which then have to be rebuild when you update
grub. But I don't think I ever did that except when
installing a new version of the distribution.

[Tim Smith]

Post by Christopher Browne
Furthermore, what people are _actually_ looking for are HEAVIER WEIGHT
alternatives to LILO. Distributions are, increasingly, booting using
GRUB, which has a whole lot of additional functionality.

Where GRUB really shines, though, is when used independently of a
distribution. I've made a bootable CD with GRUB and the ext2 intermediate
stage. Whatever boot loaded a given distribution uses, if I screw it up, I
can boot from my GRUB CD, find the kernel, and load it.

The only glitch I run into with this is that it sometimes takes a few
guesses to figure out what root= should be for the kernel. It might be nice
if the kernel were changed so that when it panics because it cannot mount
root, it dumps it's notion of the partition table just before the panic.
(Yes, I realize it prints that out when it it finds the drives, but that
often scrolls by fast and is long gone by the time the "can't mount root"
panic. Printing it again right there would give you a chance to see it,
which would greatly help in getting the right root= on the next try).

[Kasper Dupont]

Post by Tim Smith
(Yes, I realize it prints that out when it it finds the drives, but that
often scrolls by fast and is long gone by the time the "can't mount root"
panic. Printing it again right there would give you a chance to see it,
which would greatly help in getting the right root= on the next try).

Did you ever try Shift+PageUp?

[Måns Rullgård]

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Tim Smith
(Yes, I realize it prints that out when it it finds the drives, but that
often scrolls by fast and is long gone by the time the "can't mount root"
panic. Printing it again right there would give you a chance to see it,
which would greatly help in getting the right root= on the next try).

Did you ever try Shift+PageUp?

That doesn't work when the kernel has panicked.

[Kasper Dupont]

Post by Måns Rullgård

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Tim Smith
(Yes, I realize it prints that out when it it finds the drives, but that
often scrolls by fast and is long gone by the time the "can't mount root"
panic. Printing it again right there would give you a chance to see it,
which would greatly help in getting the right root= on the next try).

Did you ever try Shift+PageUp?

That doesn't work when the kernel has panicked.

Sometimes it does. I'm not sure exactly when it works
and when it doesn't work.

[Jerry Peters]

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Måns Rullgård

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Tim Smith
(Yes, I realize it prints that out when it it finds the drives, but that
often scrolls by fast and is long gone by the time the "can't mount root"
panic. Printing it again right there would give you a chance to see it,
which would greatly help in getting the right root= on the next try).

Did you ever try Shift+PageUp?

That doesn't work when the kernel has panicked.

Sometimes it does. I'm not sure exactly when it works
and when it doesn't work.

It seems to be that if the keyboard lights are flashing it fails, at
least with the 2.4 kernels I've been using.

Jerry

[Måns Rullgård]

Post by Jerry Peters

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Måns Rullgård

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Tim Smith
(Yes, I realize it prints that out when it it finds the
drives, but that often scrolls by fast and is long gone by the
time the "can't mount root" panic. Printing it again right
there would give you a chance to see it, which would greatly
help in getting the right root= on the next try).

Did you ever try Shift+PageUp?

That doesn't work when the kernel has panicked.

Sometimes it does. I'm not sure exactly when it works
and when it doesn't work.

It seems to be that if the keyboard lights are flashing it fails, at
least with the 2.4 kernels I've been using.

Scrolling fails if there's something interesting just off-screen.

[Kasper Dupont]

Post by Tauno Voipio
If you need a really light way of loading, just copy the kernel onto a
floppy and there you go. Hardly can be lighter.

Deprecated and removed from 2.6. Suggested alternative for
a lightweight boot loader for floppies is SYSLINUX. Works
with FAT12 formatted floppies and nothing else. It has a
lot more features than the kernel builtin, but still
very lightweight compared to LILO. I think SYSLINUX is and
always was (at least for the last four years when I have
been using it) the best bootloader for floppies.

[Tauno Voipio]

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Tauno Voipio
If you need a really light way of loading, just copy the kernel onto a
floppy and there you go. Hardly can be lighter.

Deprecated and removed from 2.6. Suggested alternative for
a lightweight boot loader for floppies is SYSLINUX. Works
with FAT12 formatted floppies and nothing else. It has a
lot more features than the kernel builtin, but still
very lightweight compared to LILO. I think SYSLINUX is and
always was (at least for the last four years when I have
been using it) the best bootloader for floppies.

---------

Thanks for the update - I'm still staying with 2.4 till 2.6 can be trusted
and it does not break all the drivers I have.

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio @ iki fi

[Kasper Dupont]

Post by Tauno Voipio
Thanks for the update - I'm still staying with 2.4 till 2.6 can be trusted
and it does not break all the drivers I have.

When did you last try 2.6? Doesn't it work now?
Did you report any bugs found?

[Tauno Voipio]

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Tauno Voipio
Thanks for the update - I'm still staying with 2.4 till 2.6 can be trusted
and it does not break all the drivers I have.

When did you last try 2.6? Doesn't it work now?
Did you report any bugs found?

The main problem is in I/O drivers: AFAIK the 2.4 drivers are not compatible
and I'd not do it again (already ported some from 2.2 to 2.4).

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio @ iki fi

[Kasper Dupont]

Post by Tauno Voipio

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Tauno Voipio
Thanks for the update - I'm still staying with 2.4 till 2.6 can be

trusted

Post by Kasper Dupont

Post by Tauno Voipio
and it does not break all the drivers I have.

When did you last try 2.6? Doesn't it work now?
Did you report any bugs found?

The main problem is in I/O drivers: AFAIK the 2.4 drivers are not compatible
and I'd not do it again (already ported some from 2.2 to 2.4).

What kind of hardware is it, you say doesn't work with
Linux 2.6 yet?